> No, westerns have people trying to recreate and live in a frontier that
> never
> existed.
>
I didn't realize the challenge was to name a subculture that it's impossible
for you to think of something bad to say about. That has nothing to do with
my point, and is pretty damn pedantic if it's your point. Anyway, what I'm
trying to say stands- you asked me to name a subculture that doesn't deal
with the same problems as the furry fandom, I've shown you that there's a
ton. I admitted right away in my reply to NOT YOU that other subcultures
are bound to have their problems. Being overrun with sexual deviants just
doesn't happen to be among them, and a willingness to judge and shun is no
doubt part of the reason why.
> No various groups all have the same fringe activities? No, and arguing that
>
> particular types of oddball are not found in every group is nothing but a
> strawman argument.
>
Um, a strawman argument is an attempt to characterize somebody else's
argument in a deliberately weak way in order to make it easier to defeat.
Now, I definitely see YOU doing that with what you did just above (and
below), but I don't understand how I could possibly be doing it. What
argument has even been made here that you think I'm responding to? You
asked me for examples of fandoms that don't have the problems of furry, and
I gave you a bunch.
> > The
> > folks who go to Hemmingway look-alike contests still probably don't have
> to
> > fuss with that- and they actually wear costumes!
>
> Capital L literature has many of the same issues that literary SF has.
>
I don't care about 'many of the same problems'. That's an example of the
whole 'strawman' thing you mentioned above. I'm concerned, specifically,
with the types of problems JMH often complains about- i.e., sexual deviants
becoming the rule moreso than the exception.
>
> > There's probably
> > thousands of examples of fan-communities based around automobiles,
> authors,
> > politicians, some artists, all kinds of stuff, that doesn't have to deal
> > with this.
>
> Politicians? You don't even need to glance at the fans before you have
> enough
> issues to fill volumes.
>
Like I just indicated above (and in my very first email, *sigh*), every kind
of person in every kind of situation has something you could define as an
'issue' if you wanted to. See above, I'm not going to address this 'point'
again.
>
> How many people have the fringes of furry fandom killed?
>
See above.
> Nothing to do with that, it's that all the moral outrage, at best, creates
> rules that stop people from doing what almost no one in even the extreme
> fringes are doing. In general, all it does is bring outside attention in a
> way that makes tiny fringes look like major components.
>
>
You'll need to explain this again, because I'm slow. What it SOUNDS like
you're saying is that the fandom being overrun with perverts is due to
people pointing out that the fandom is overrun with perverts, which makes 0
sense.
> Frankly, in cases like furry fandom, it's all about stuff that causes no
> actual harm that the person whining simply doesn't like.
>
And now you're getting into sexual ethics, trying to tell me what people
should be allowed to fairly complain about, and what's none of our business.
I could give a shit what you think of such matters, and luckily, it has
nothing to do with my point, which I will repeat for you:
***
The problem That JMH regularly complains about, which is to say, the fandom
being overrun with perverts, is made worse by the 'who am I to judge'
attitude that makes said perverts feel safe in expressing themselves.
***
Now, if you don't think there is a problem, or if you think the 'problem' is
actually something great, I could really care less and I'm not interested in
talking to you about it. At all. Moving on.
"This problem" is largely a fantasy that almost no one outside the group
> even
> knows about.
>
Um, almost noone outside the group knows about the fucking group, so that's
sort of a given. If you mean to say that most non-furries who have heard of
furdom don't think of us as 'those perverts', I'd beg to differ, but it's
not like I have statistics.
> It was a tempest in a teapot when the Burned Furs were whining
> about people liking things that they didn't approve of, and it's even less
> of
> an actual issue now.
>
Hey, if you don't think people should be complaining about it, then take it
up with JMH. My point was academic- permissiveness is not neutrality. You
can say "I wish the pervs would go away" and you can say "Who am I to
judge", but you can't say "I wish the pervs would go away, but who am I to
judge?" or else you're helping to cause the very thing you're complaining
about.
> As I said before, the freaks aren't taking over the fandom. If they were
> going to, they would have done so back in the days when Mark Merlino was
> still running Confurence, (and even then, it wasn't people from CF who
> brought an entire brothel to the hotel). As I also said before, if your
> real
> issue is that "the freaks aren't hiding", then the person with a problem is
>
> you.
>
Again, a personal attack, or telling me the problem isn't really a problem,
is going to fall on deaf ears, so move along, sir. If you think things are
fine they way they are, I'm not interested in discussing the point with you.
> Recent Activity:
>
> - New Members<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SkunkworksAMA/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmdjQ3ZWcxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzQwNDYyNjcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgzNzY0BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEyNjIzMTA5NDM-?o=6>
> 2
> - New Files<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SkunkworksAMA/files;_ylc=X3oDMTJnZTBha2FrBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzQwNDYyNjcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgzNzY0BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZmaWxlcwRzdGltZQMxMjYyMzEwOTQz>
> 1
>
> Visit Your Group<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SkunkworksAMA;_ylc=X3oDMTJlcG1vbnRqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzQwNDYyNjcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgzNzY0BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTI2MjMxMDk0Mw--> Start
> a New Topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SkunkworksAMA/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlbWR0bmMxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzQwNDYyNjcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgzNzY0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTI2MjMxMDk0Mw-->
> MARKETPLACE
>
> Going Green: Your Yahoo! Groups resource for green living<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=14k832c5c/M=493064.13814333.13821539.13298430/D=groups/S=1705083764:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1262318143/L=/B=KwbIgEPDhFg-/J=1262310943838155/K=ghbyYrwOLsdMx4zW3PK.vw/A=5922843/R=0/SIG=11ckn2mo6/*http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/green/>
> ------------------------------
> Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their families,
> for the world and for each other<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=14kj3bvcj/M=493064.13814537.13821737.10835568/D=groups/S=1705083764:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1262318143/L=/B=LAbIgEPDhFg-/J=1262310943838155/K=ghbyYrwOLsdMx4zW3PK.vw/A=5697381/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/*http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/>
> [image: Yahoo! Groups]<http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkbzhpYWI2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzQwNDYyNjcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgzNzY0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMjYyMzEwOTQz>
> Switch to: Text-Only<SkunkworksAMA-traditional_at_yahoogroups.com?subject=Change+Delivery+Format:+Traditional>,
> Daily Digest<SkunkworksAMA-digest_at_yahoogroups.com?subject=Email+Delivery:+Digest>•
> Unsubscribe<SkunkworksAMA-unsubscribe_at_yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>• Terms
> of Use <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
> .
>
>
>
Received on Fri Jan 01 2010 - 13:02:56 CST